TwinTurbo.NET: Nissan 300ZX forum - VG30DE and TT tuning. (its not short)
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Subject VG30DE and TT tuning. (its not short)
     
Posted by AshsZ (FABio) on February 26, 2003 at 1:40 PM
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In Reply To Let me ask you one thing... posted by Zdreamin on February 26, 2003 at 12:23 PM
     
Message Cars are individuals and one particular car may benefit more than the next with the same programming due to small differences. CAS alignment and fuel pressure/regulation, coil pack strength, plug type and gap; all are contributing factors to differences from one car to the next. With this in mind, you can start to see that answering your question becomes difficult. It all really depends on the car, what condition it is in AND mostly, where it is starting from when you begin the comparison.

I want everyone to put it out of your mind that you will make another 100+ HP just with the Zemulator. That is NOT what your objective is with the device. Todd's car is a huge exception to how much you can 'tune' into the car. He started with a program I put together which was incredibly conservative because I wanted it to last until I got up there to tune it. I was able to take an incredibly conservative map to a safe level and make big power gains in the process. KEep in mind that at 8.5psi the first pull was like 240RWHP. After tuning it, still at 8.5psi, we broke 309RWHP. After increasing the boost to 11psi and tuning that loadband, we pulled it up another 31HP.

The primary thing to look at is what the peak horsepower should be, approximately, given the upgrades on the car and the condition of the powerplant. A stage3 TTZ can be tuned to make 340-360RWHP safely. If you are making 310RWHP and you put a Zemulator in, dont expect to see 410RWHP just because you put it in (100HP increase).

Think of the Zemulator as a tool that allows you to optimize the engine run-time parameters such that your A/F ratio is perfectly set to an ideal value and ignition timing offers both power as well as safety during long hard pulls. It allows you to tune specifically for your car. Its should not be seen as a "100HP bolt-on". The operating program and parameters are the heart of the powerplant as it connects every component of your engine together to produce power. If you make a change to that system in any way by installing an upgrade, you will be empowered to optimize how the system works as a whole to take full advantage of the change you made.

In stock form, the ECU has the ability to do this to some degree. Additions of camshafts or any upgrade that modifies the volumetric efficiency of the engine the ECU can adjust for pretty well. But dont think it 'learns' this, in fact, it simply shifts to a slightly different configuration that was preprogrammed by the tuner. For all practical purposes, the ECU does not "learn" ANYTHING in the high load sections of the maps. It only learns fine tuning of fuel delivery in the low load, closed loop operation. Everything else (mid to high load) is completely defined by the user and the control will NOT vary because of any 'learning' of the ECU.

But, on the other hand, devices like intercoolers, aquamist, turbochargers, devices that affect the air charge density and temperature, are not subject to seeing much change from the ECU. This is because the ECU lacks in the ignition timing control department as it does not employ a 'feedback' ignition timing control system based on an intake charge temp sensor. So, when you put a cooler charge in the engine, you will see more power, but not nearly as much as you can potentially see if a change is made to the ECU's program to take advantage of this.

Lets say, for example, you put more efficient intercoolers on your car. You will see performance gains, no doubt, because the density of the charge air is higher. But, you also have to take into account that because the charge air is cooler too, you can safely run more ignition timing advance and get even more power. Guys that put stillen intercoolers on feel increases in power, and they can up the boost a little more to make more power, but what they aren't doing is upping the ignition timing and leaving the boost alone at 16psi.

People jack up their boost and it makes a little more power because the benefit of additional pressure outweighs the additional heating (and loss of air density). They can get away with a little more of this because the timing in a JWT program is significantly retarded. However, there is more power to be realized by maintaining the boost at 16psi (which is a high efficiency range for stock turbos) and upping the timing. This keeps the turbos in their prime operating range, doesn't overspool them, and keeps the charge temp low enough that you can increase the timing and make more power. It also introduces less heatsoak into the engine as you aren't just blowing more hot air into it. One of the things that will be great for tuning purposes which the Zemulator owners will be able to take advantage of is an intake temp sensor. You could even put several in there to monitor temps before and after the IC's if you so desired. The Zemulator employs an 8 channel data acquisition device that the user can attach any type of sensor to (up to 8 total) as well as provide a scaling equation to convert the voltage information into an actual unit if they so desired.

Sadly a lot of people for a very long time have thought, "more boost means more power". While this has been true in the past for 300ZXTT owners running JWT programs, it is by far the least effective way to make more power - not to mention the additional stress it puts on the turbos. You have to look at every component in the system and consider its effective operating parameters and strive to work within those parameters. Stock turbos simply suck ass at anything above about 16psi. The next time I visit the dyno (very soon) I'm pretty sure I will break 400RWHP, perhaps even 410RWHP at only 16psi of boost. This is because it is counterproductive to run it out of its efficiency range. Upgrades to my exhaust system and sufficient airflow over the intercoolers and an aluminum flywheel should all come together to put me where I'm thinking it will be (at least that's my rationale and my hope =)..

So, in short, tuning a car requires that you take these given "facts" on the components you are using and determine what a reasonable HP output should be. Subtract 50HP from it and make that your safe target. If you manage to make more power, congrats, but keep it safe. When tuning you will ALWAYS find the limits on the way up. Detonation is going to occur. It is simply a part of tuning as you need to determine where that limit is so you know how much to back off for the margin. You start low and begin slowly working up until the limits are found, then back off to give yourself ample safety margin.
But, like I said in my dyno pull video, "you just gotta have the right tools to do it (tune the car)."
[ http://ashleypowers.com/ashdynointerview2.mpg ]

I hope this clarifies things for you.. =)

Please, be safe, not stupid, on the dyno...



[ ashleypowers.com ]
[ agpowers@bellsouth.net ]

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